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Posted by Euph on 18 September 2013 - 12:43 PM
I think this is what it says, a new unnanounced game. I don't think "Titan" is returning, whatever "next gen
mmopersistant world" they come out with next, it's going to be so different from what Titan was trying to be, that I don't think the word "Titan" is relevant anymore.
I sound like such a debbie downer, sorry.... haha.
Looks like we'd better change our name to: Unannounced Focus!
Posted by Euph on 16 June 2013 - 07:30 PM
There's also the possibility that the IP they thought was original wound up being very similar to a game that has been recently released or planned for release ahead of Titan.
This is interesting, perhaps one or two of their key features were actually center-pieces of other games recently announced.
I chose 'Other Priorities.' on the poll and this is why:
Blizzard still have a cash cow in WoW, yes it may be declining but it's still relatively consistent the market isn't exactly expanding so it's not too much of a problem and they've still likely got the majority market share, so instead of investing money into penetrating the market further with Titan, they're focusing a little bit on their non-MMO games for a while. There's nothing in the MMO crowd that gives Blizzard any reason to rush Titan and if they announce Titan at BlizzCon, it would only accellerate the decline of WoW, so they want to keep it making healthy cash for as long as possible. Not only this, I think they're probably wanting to build quite a bit into Ballstars and HS a fair amount as that's all about setting up a whole new e-market revenue stream for them (correct me if I'm wrong). From these games they're going to learn a whole lot more about real money in-game stuff.
Though Blizz might have been conceptualising Titan for a long time, they probably started the actual development of the game much more recently (read: Not as far back as 2006, but before 2010) I think there was even a Blue quote to back this point up somewhere. AHA! Found it:
"I'd have to think about that one. I guess it depends on how you look at such things, because when we first started the team, we started really small. We start with a couple of people and talk about the concept and draw some concept art. It definitely has not been in core development for that long. I'd say core development was closer to four years, but even that was with a smaller team."
And there are other quotes shown on the wiki page mentioning "It’s all brand new technology." (also by Rob Pardo), so I feel like this rules out the idea that the technology is outdated. However, I do think the gaming market has changed a whole lot and it's likely they need to retune things but I really don't feel like that's worth a whole project turnaround.
Some games or some ideas in general just require a lot of time and space to iron out fundamental flaws, the company will put more effort into their other extremely successful games while they do this - it just makes sense. This project halt is just a little meditative halfway period in which they redefine all aspects of the pursuit, I'm guessing.
Posted by Euph on 11 June 2013 - 12:15 PM
We had a great conversation about this and I think it's great that the console world is embracing more MMO elements. There is a certain level of accessibility on consoles along with different design philosophies that could really shake up the traditions of our precious PC MMOs.
I haven't been this excited to play any upcoming games since WoW was in development (except for Titan of course!). That's gotta count for something. I consider myself a pretty die-hard RPG and MMORPG player, but lately I've become bored. I've become bored because the genre has stagnated, the one I've been happily playing for 25 years. WoW is so popular and overbearing that games with less than 1 million players are viewed by the unforgiving gaming community as failures. Innovation, even when moderately successful, is constricted by this ridiculous expectation by gamers for every new MMO to "kill" WoW. Enter consoles.
These console guys are free from the expectations of the traditional PC MMO crowd and the drive to directly compete with WoW. They're serving a different market with different expectations. They can surprise them with tried-and-true MMO elements and even play with new ones without instantly alienating their player-base with a new idea. They can shake Hamsters rock, Squirrels suck! up a little, challenge conventions, and maybe discover some fantastic and fun new gameplay that players won't so readily dismiss just because player numbers don't match WoW.
However, I don't think the MMO genre is dead, as you put it. It's maybe hurt or sick and needs some console medicine to make it all better.
Pretty much agree with Erem here, on everything. No, my post is not pointless!
Posted by Euph on 07 June 2013 - 11:50 AM
We'll get a snippet of information at Bcon, but I doubt it'll be anything solid other than "Yes, we're still working on it. We felt we needed to change direction majorly in terms of technology." or something like that which we already know.
It's funny that I was thinking it's almost impossible for them not to announce Titan at Bcon and then all of a sudden - BOOM.
Posted by Euph on 29 May 2013 - 12:26 PM
It's been really great to read all these replies and I hope you've all enjoyed reading each-others posts as well. It really gives us all a window into what makes our fellow community members tick, and that's great.
So Euph. What about you?
I was waiting for such a question, heh. The honesty of it is, I'm still trying to work out my life's passion. I've worked out that I enjoy writing things, but I have no subject I really feel passion for.
More recently, I've realised that people drive some passion inside me, this community and things in my 'real-life' have made me realise this. I just enjoy being able to provide for others, over most other things.
The frustrating thing is that I can't really pinpoint my passion, I can't pinpoint a subject or even know a broad subject, I can't pinpoint what aspect of people it is that really drives me.
It's all up in the air.
Thanks for all the replies, much enjoyed.
Posted by Euph on 26 May 2013 - 01:29 PM
People get different uses out of games.
Some don't really care about other players and are solely focused on their own progression. They want feelings of gratification and control from the game, dominating ruthlessly because they perhaps can't in the real world and want to. Some call these people 'elitists'.
On the other side, you get some players who appreciate the idea that all actions should be 'fun' or 'enjoyable' for the majority, not just themselves. You get the idea of a 'hand up, not a hand out' - helping other players to be better, not sacrifcing your gold or items to bad players, but helping the players go from bad to okay, okay to good and so on.
Lots of people claim "I'm not here to help some idiot who can't play, I'm here to have fun", but spend most of their time complaining about bad players or setting up barriers to people trying to progress to their level. I don't know about you, but complaining about bad players and exclusivising raids sounds quite the opposite of fun to me. I sometimes feel players that feel this way need to sit back and think to themselves if they really are enjoying this game, or if it's just blinding away time because it's cathartic from the lack of power in their everyday life.
Gamers can be either for themselves and have comfort in this solitary control, or they're for other people and they gain fulfillment when all are enjoying whatever it is the game offers.
Most are inbetween these two polarizations and of course there are many hybrids of these two stereotypes, but they're a general guide.
I'm clearly of the ilk of players that gains fun and enjoyment from everyone else around me enjoying the game, but I also appreciate solitary questing and doing soloing things - so there is perhaps a mix of both sides for me in that.
How does this relate to what I do/don't want to see in Titan? Well it shapes my perception of good concepts and bad concepts.
Don't want to see:
- Gear being a huge contributor to how 'good' a player is. Of course, I agree that it's essential in building progression, but I also think it is very limiting and that players should be able to be good because of other factors currently not really taken into account such as their movement skills, inventive ideas with physics or any other factors. Of course, the problem with this is that it's quite utopian, we've heard rumours that Titan will use Tab Targeting and involving other factors will be extremely hard for the dev team to balance. However, at the same time I think that allowing in physics and movement into the ability of a player to take down a mob would really open up endless realms of opportunity of innovation by both players and devs. One could argue that WoW already does this, such as in raids moving out of LoS or going in AoE buffs and staying away from debuffs but I think it's a very quantified, crude and limiting degree of movement.
- Dog eat dog communities. As Velocity said, WoW isn't actually built for friendly players that want to help others and they have to implement devices to quell the veracity of brutal, heartless communities - if I wanted a brutal and heartless community I'd go play CoD or something, not an MMO with rich stories and an array of community focused devices. Although I agree that the whole point of MMOs is that they're diverse and cater to a huge audience, so you're always going to have elitists and you're always going to have 'socialists'.
Do want to see:
- More freedom. In all areas of the game, from travelling to being able to climb buildings or break down doors, hide from other players in objects etc. Not only this, I'd love to see more freedom in skills and once again bring in the idea of physics and movement and how this might affect abilities. It would also be wonderful for players to be able to tune abilities directly in a way different to talent trees, e.g. If you wanted to be an illusionist mage, you could find objects in the world and tune your specific skills. I suppose something like Path of the Titans but less quanitifed and more plastic would be good. The problem with this approach is that it does make work harder for devs, it makes the whole game less controllable and predictable but I'd argue that perhaps this is a good thing?
I could think of more, but that'll do me for now.
Posted by Euph on 16 May 2013 - 10:39 AM
Thanks for all the kind words, it is much appreciated.
Great article! I really enjoy these kinds of articles.
I personally hope it's based on earth which will give the devs more freedom.
Also it seems that the famous Cameron Dayton post you mention "Shifting tectonic plates, raising Atlantis, and reviving Teotihuacan. Damn I love my job"
was never about Titan.
Thanks for highlighting this Papaz, I also find it ironic how I've read that before and even commented on that, but clearly completely forgot! I remember the first time reading the tweet thinking it was to do with Vash'jr in WoW:Cata and shifting tectonic plates was obviously... the shifting of tectonic plates in Cataclysm. However, the deletion and all that is all a bit fishy. Why delete something if it talks about earlier work? If it was causing too much controversy why not instead state "This tweet was actually about old work"? It could be harmless, it could be a conspiracy! Who knows? I think drawing it towards Titan though is still productive in helping us think of solid ways Blizzard might use old stories.
StarCraft II was codenamed Medusa.
Diablo III was codenamed Hydra.
Greek mythological names are traditional for Blizzard games' codenames. That doesn't mean they are "heavily based on Greek mythos". So this conclusion is just invalid.
As Eremite said, that phrase was really a liberal interpretation of what he said in his article and I'm sorry if you felt it invalid. While in that sentence I discuss Greek mythology in relation to the name, I also mention another reason for us to believe Greek mythology will be a base theme in Titan, such as the 'leak' we had. However, if you are still not satisfied with such a weak justification (all speculation we can do with so little information is weak, really) I would offer you up the idea that 'Titans' to one extent of another are mentioned in both WoW and Starcraft and perhaps the world stone in Diablo is also created by these 'Titans'. If you would believe this, then maybe the idea that this MMO will be an expansion into this mostly untouched mention of Titans seems more plausible, as Blizzard are obviously keen on the idea of mentioning 'great makers'. Furthermore, if we just dream about what 'Titan' could lead to for a moment, it could lead to things like player-created content, give way to the idea of heroes or demi-gods and so on.
My last 'Lore Focus' thread was about exploring how Blizzard had used mythologies in their other games, this thread is about how they might do the same in their upcoming MMO. There are no definites at all in this article, everything is plastered with a health-warning that it's not the be all and end all of Titan lore speculation.
All I'm here to do is play devils advocate to an extent; explore different avenues with the little information I have, and use the information in both a restricted and unrestricted manner (depending how far-out the speculation is). What I'm trying to do most is explore a bit more of the information we already have in a sensible manner and help people start thinking about different ways in which Titan could form, hopefully some of my speculation is on the right track.
I've always liked this idea:
When you only have a few pieces of information, it's easy to presume that they're the most important ones.
Posted by Euph on 15 May 2013 - 11:35 PM
"I want us as a company to really begin to look at opportunities to create really simple stories that everyone can relate to, so that sometimes it's not about mastering or getting lost in all the minutiae, but the simple points of human connectivity."
Chris Metzen - (EUROGAMER 2012)
Pro-tip: If you feel lost, read some of the links embedded in the post and come back afterwards.
What mythologies will Titan use?
Before I get into talking about Earth, I would like to quickly mention what mythologies will be used in Titan, and to a lesser extent, how they'll be used. We've had some light shed on this by both tweets from Blizz employees and a direct leak to our website that stated there will be:
"Heavy use of Greek, Roman and Viking myths"
Using this as a platform for a bit of speculation, here's what I came up with:
Greek And Roman Mythology
Think Demi-Gods and Gods, Heroes, Pandora's Box, Persephone and Atlantis.
Greek and Roman mythology are one in the same, the main difference seems to be that Roman mythology picked and chose bits of Greek mythology to use. I think that Titan will have a spine of Greek mythology running through so as to provide a familiar story at the heart of the MMO. So what do we get if we make Greek Mythology simple and clear? The four or five ages, two of which are: 'Age of Gods and Mortals' and the 'Heroic Age'. Not only do the names sound suiting (as players are often positioned as heroes), the actual content to these ages sounds applicable to what we think we know about Titan. Go and read up on it and see what you find, report back in the comments below!
Think World Tree, Runes and Gods of aspects of nature.
Norse mythology is something Blizzard also love and have used extensively in WoW. The great thing about Nordic tales and myths is that they blend so well with ideas behind Greek myths and this really allows Blizzard to amalgamate the two without too much difficulty to create something that is both new and familiar. However, I also feel that because Blizzard has included so much (the majority) and such a direct chunk of Nordic tales in WoW, I find it unlikely that they'll want to cover this base too much again. So, if we still abide by the rumour that it will include 'Viking myths', I think we have to temper this with the idea that Blizz have already delved really deep into this lore and if we do see any of it in Titan, it will be limited in depth.
Pieces from other cultures
As I've mentioned previously, there were lots of little pieces of Blizz games that came from all sorts of old stories, cultures and so on - WoW perhaps being the most obvious with this. We are likely to see many different real-world cultures and environments being inspiration for those in Titan just as in the past.
Titan: 'It's Based on Earth's history'?
So, a little while ago we got a small leak (ok, not so small and yes it went viral) that mentioned that Titan lore would be 'based on Earth's history'. This is something we have speculated heavily on before and since and I think is something worthy of our time to think about! I've thought up three broad ideas around this rumour of which I am 99.9% it will be one:
Set on Earth before or after 'current' lore
Blizzard might have decided to explicitly use Earth as the core planet of their game, and this is perhaps why StarCraft lore has referenced Earth directly but never expanded very much on the history of it. The presence of the Zerg in StarCraft also draws similarities to 'The Flood' in Greek Mythology, food for thought. Not only is the mention, but the absence of Earth in StarCraft is interesting and perhaps indicative of the planet being used in Titan. The idea fits in with other clues we've had from Blizzard employees themselves, such as the tweets of (recently ex-) writer Cameron Dayton which reference the following:
What we can take from this is that, these specific events mentioned above are all in the past - does this make argument for Titan taking place before our real-life 'lore'? Or, does it mean it's very far in the future and ancient mysteries are being explored? Similar to what the new MMO The Secret World has done; which goes by the slogan 'Everything is true' in relation to ancient stories.
I would argue for Titan being set on Earth after our current lore. Setting it in the future not only allows players to partake in a fresh new sci-fi genre, it provides the familiarity and mystery of ancient stories - a successful concept employed in the now saturated fantasy MMO market! This allows Blizzard on a business level to both keep their audience while not competing directly with WoW and also have the capability to capture a new audience (the Halo players, perhaps?).
Halo Artwork by Bungie
Set on a planet based on Earth
Using Earth as the core planet of Blizzards' upcoming MMO comes with its limitations, and while some might argue limitations breed innovation, others might argue that too many limitations just restrict creation. This is why I suggest that another option is that the planet this MMO is set on is a fictional one with many huge pieces of real-Earth lore thrown in and perhaps wrapped up in a different way, such as Blizzard did with WoW with their inclusion of Norse lore, or in Diablo with folk-lore and religious themes that I explored in my previous thread.
But Euph, StarCraft mentioned Earth and didn't delve into it directly. I thought you said this is an indicator that they want to use it for Titan?
I did say this, and I still think it's a strong argument. However, I also think the argument can be drawn two ways. I think Blizzards' lack of inclusion of Earth in StarCraft perhaps shows an unwillingness to set their games in a setting that they can't control every aspect of, you see... if they carbon-copy Earth but stick a new name on it, they can do whatever they want and this allows for both narrative and business-model freedom in the future. Plus, it would be a whole sticky mess trying to explain and shoe-horn their own lore around our 'current' Earth lore if they set it in the future or even the past.
I feel like Blizzards' previous behaviour of wrapping everything up in a layer of Blizzard skin is the most compelling argument and indicator that they will do the same with Earth in Titan. Essentially, they're going to wrap up the good old planet Earth we love into their own pretty shaped wrapping paper so that they have freedom to deliver whatever they wish. How did I get onto the subject of wrapping paper again?
Not based on Earth at all
Titan might not be based on Earth at all. In fact, the tweets from blues and 'leaks' from random people on the internet might all turn out to be a big load of poppycock, or we've just completely mis-interpretted the true stuff and absorbed much of the untrue stuff.
However, if the planet is not based on Earth at all there are countless possibilities for the setting. To name a few, it could be set on a giant spaceship millions of years from now, it could be set in a planet for the gods or it could be something completely different. What we know for sure, is that we don't actually have a clue what Titan will be set on - it could be anything, but we're here to discuss, dream and think up things based on the little bits of information we have.
Eremite has done some really great speculation work in the past on the codename 'Titan' and how it relates to what the main theme of the game will actually be, he looked at what previous codenames were and what the core of the game was to help decipher what 'Titan' meant. He came to the conclusion that the MMO will be heavily based on Greek mythos and that the codename is just one step shy from the concept of the game. Going on these assumptions, I pose you this question:
- How would the codename Titan be relevant to a setting not based on Earth?
I hope you enjoyed the read, and do PM me if you see any problems or want to discuss anything at length. Otherwise, leave feedback - good or bad - below!
As a minor disclaimer: This thread is purely speculative, and yes it is based on lots of rumours that I and (I believe) the rest of the community find to be pretty solid in their likelihood.
Thanks for making it this far down the page,
Posted by Euph on 15 May 2013 - 01:55 PM
What I would like to see in the new Titan.
Really very nice ideas. I feel the need to mention that EVE Online has been hugely successful with its own little economy and all sorts of routes for players to be political, run businesses, make banks and buy insurance, loans and all the rest. I think if Blizz could crack something similiar to EVE and what you've suggested and perhaps in a more user-friendly way, they could be onto a real winner that has potential to live for a long time (again, much like EVE has survived almost exclusively because of the uniqueness of its complex economy and systems).