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40 man raids


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#1
ahlaundoh

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I really enjoyed 40 man raids. What do you guys think? If anything, they should have a 40 man raid options. It really just creates an environment that 25 mans lack.

 

If you have raided 40 mans, you'll understand what I mean.



#2
Templar

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I loved 40 man raids and hope to see them in Titan, they add that flavor of epic that other raids can't recreate.

 

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#3
DevilsD

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I didnt Raid much as i was more of a Solo player in WoW doing my own thing, but the level of commitment and teamwork i heard that was involved in Raids sounded very tempting and fun, but alas i did not get involved :)

 

I had a imaginative thought some time ago and it consisted of not only having 40 people doing a single run but even something as grand as a server wide run where anyone in the Server can become apart of the "War effort" to fight back against some sort of evil (perhaps it could be end game content). An invading AI Force threatens to take over the entire Server unless people band together to push them back, it would form real battle lines and players would have to come together to quell any flanking tactics the AI tried to use. This Dynamic world threatening scourge would stop at nothing until the world is theirs, it would make for a really fun gameplay element. Obviously starting areas would be immune from being overrun, but once players got into the "real world" depending on how well the current player base on that server managed to push back the invading force they would have to join in on the front lines before their adventure could begin.

 

Soz for going off topic :)


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#4
Orhai

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40-72 man content from vanilla wow and everquest was the best raid content i have played i do not like how game companies these days are so focused on the coop 5 man content or even gimmicky 10 man content

raiding should be about building a guild and working together to achieve something not just any thrown together public group can do

 

i also think the tuning needs to be more difficult again content needs to last longer and be higher quality rather than be beat in a few weeks and farmed until the next content comes out

 

having said that even larger grander scale community efforts were awesome too like aq gate opening event or something like the sleeper on RZ in everquest



#5
PinkPony

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i dont like 40man raids - they suck imo

 

in 10man you know everyone, it is much more personal.

in 10man you also need coordination but its much more comfortable.

but you could also say in 10man the coordination is at least as exacting as in 40man, if not much more because in 40man you have every "class" and talents, in 10man probably not, so you have to choose your setup wisely (except if it is a game where everything is perfectly homogenized - which i would find very disappointing).

in 10man all the spell effects are not as dramatic as in 40man, where your screen is often overloaded with flashy FX. that's not so cool.

in 10man it matters if someone dies (in 40man too, of course, but not as much). so 10man gameplay is somewhat intense.

 

its not about the size. 10man or 15 can also be very dramatic.

 

all represents my opinion - and i believe the one of many others. 

 

if you are the one who believes 10man sucks feel free to post why you think this way, i would like to read more about people who like 40mans.


Edited by PinkPony, 19 May 2013 - 10:21 AM.


#6
Tiam

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I don't think there will be 40man raids in Titan.Blizzard are talking for something between 25 and 10 man,which is 15 man raid size.Having more than one size raid is a loss of difelopment time.We don't need 40,25,20 or 10 man raids.We don't need more than one raid size.My vote goes for 15 people maximum.


Edited by Twilight, 19 May 2013 - 10:40 AM.

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#7
PinkPony

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I don't think there will be 40man raids in Titan.

 

I'd be fine with every solution, to be honest, as long as they don't make as many adjustments as in WoW now. Buffing and debuffing so many times doesn't feel so good - but it's good to learn from mistakes and discover new potentials. But that's another topic. Titan ftw ;)


Edited by PinkPony, 19 May 2013 - 11:07 AM.


#8
Templar

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To elaborate on my point, I would love 40 man raids but would settle for 10 and 25 man raids if they would be as epic as 40 man raids.


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#9
PinkPony

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but would settle for 10 and 25 man raids if they would be as epic as 40 man raids.

 

define epic. that definition will be different from player to player.

 

to you mean epic by thinking of the great scale of players in a 40-man? is it just the manpower, or do you feel there are another things that make a 40-man raid more epic than another size?



#10
Templar

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define epic. that definition will be different from player to player.

 

to you mean epic by thinking of the great scale of players in a 40-man? is it just the manpower, or do you feel there are another things that make a 40-man raid more epic than another size?

I think that the large group makes it feel all the more epic and I really enjoy working together in a large team to complete an objective.

 

As for my definition of epic, I would say that epic describes those awesome moments that can never be replicated again, for example, the Leeroy Jenkins 'incident' was an epic moment.


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#11
Tiam

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My only hope is that raids have only 1 size and lock out.Not like in WoW where you have 10/25 size and before Cataclysm we had even 2 different lock outs and we had to grind everything.

I personally want 1 raid size with normal and heroic lock out from 15 to 20 people.Only one loot table and only one world 1st achievement.I hate how in WoW people are comparing 10 and 25 man sizes.When they are totally different things


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#12
PinkPony

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I hate how in WoW people are comparing 10 and 25 man sizes.When they are totally different things

 

Competition is something good for a MMO. But this is only the pve side we are talking about. What's with all those battlegrounds? Latest (95%-) "leak" said that titan will be focused on e-sports and that means heavy focus on pvp i assume. Is it good to have a 40-man random-BG? I don't know, it's very zergy and doesn't feel good in that aspect, and if many players are on one spot at the same time it can get laggy.

 

and PvP BGs definitely need objectives that rewards the player imo (for doing something good).

 

i'd still say 20-man is the maximum for the pvp side of the game. it's just more fluent and feels better. but i am also hoping for big open world pvp events (and that means uninstanced of course)!



#13
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/online

/begin transmission

 

Long ago, when "Personal Computers" were in their infancy. There was no such thing as a computer gaming market. People that owned computers were just as likely to write their own games as seek out games created by others. There was no fanbase to apologize to if a game was too difficult.

 

Today, the "Gaming Industry" is a multi-billion dollar monster that has already rivaled/surpassed television viewership and is beginning to challenge the entertainment behemoth "Movie Industry".

 

Now there are gaming markets, genres, and niches and so much money is being poured into game development that production studios are forced to try to reach the largest market possible to ensure they recoup their investment.

 

I would venture to say, that if you are passionate enough to register and post at a site discussing a game that you know almost nothing about; you are probably a pretty hardcore gamer.

 

But you are a minority. You are not a market or a genre. You are a niche. As much as we love 40 man raids (they are very cool), the mainstream gamer does not have the time or desire to put forth the effort required to complete that kind of undertaking.

 

Blizzard figured this out only after they realized that WoW was branching out of the hardcore niche and appealing to a larger market. When you have 10, 11, 12 million subscribers, you have to listen to what the majority wants and the overwhelming majority of casual gamers said they would enjoy the game more if it wasn't so tedious. If gear was easier to get. If raids weren't so hard to get started or completed. Enter 10 and 25 man raids. Enter LFR function. Enter instant ports to instances. Enter easier raid mechanics.

 

But as bad as all that sounds (to some), the main advantage the gaming industry has over the movie industry is that a game can have different difficulty settings. You can't release the next Star Trek movie as both a G rated and an R rated movie at the same time, but you can have both regular and heroic instances. This allows you to keep several larger raids while still appealing to the masses with lots of smaller raids.

 

I don't know if 40 man raids are still viable. I hope so, but I think the standard will probably shift 25 with most being done by casuals at 10. We will probably continue to see raids with two difficulty settings. A high end at 25-40 man and a low end at 10-15 man. The more you go with, the better the loot.

 

Anyway, if I want to find the hardcore gamers, I know all I have to do is find the Titan Focus Guild on launch day. 

 

/end transmission

/disconnected


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#14
Lokan

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When it comes to raids in titan, the whole next gen thingy makes me wonder, maybe they wont have anything like the typical raids we know from other mmos? While raids can be entertaining and allow for means to progress your character, maybe it is time to come up with something completely new and fresh? 

 

Dynamic events or quests perhaps, groups completing different tasks in order to accomplish something. 

While I do enjoy conventional raids I would gladly welcome a new model instead of/in addition to the old, kill trash kill boss raid model. 

 

Whatever ideas they choose to go with it will probably make me spend many long hours in my cozy computer corner  ^_^.


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#15
Stompalomp

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The daft thing is that 40 man raids in Vanilla were waaay more forgiving that 10man raids are today.  I remember only having 25 men in the raid when we killed Magtheridon in MC the first time.  There's no way you could 7-8 man most 10 man bosses nowadays unless you outgeared them massively.  Not only that, but the encounters themselves were much simpler in terms of mechanics.  

 

This meant that Vanilla raiding was in many ways much more accessible than raiding is now. Not only that, but with 40man raids you were much more likely to be able to find a raid team in the first place, or at least be able to jump into raids from the subs bench when your guild was missing a player or two.  

 

It was easier to make friends and pass knowledge around too.  Most 40 man raid teams used Class Leaders (ie a player who really knew their class) to organise that class and to help out others who needed advice or help. And because there would be at least 5 of each class in the raid there was banter between the class members, and you really go to know people.  Not only that, but because it was 40 man, realistically you needed at least 50 players able and wanting to raid which meant much bigger guilds, more socialisation and that in turn lead to making more friends and getting to know more people.  Guild 5 man runs were easier to organise, and there was always someone available to help out with quests etc. 

 

And what did 40man raiding really require of you to succeed? Punctuality and the ability to listen.  That's it. That's all.  All you really had to do was turn up on time, listen to instructions and have fun.  And doesn't 10man raiding in a guild require exactly the same thing?

 

Bring back 40 man raids! There is no downside!



#16
WickedWitchy

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I wouldn't mind 'events'  or dynamic quest lines that requires 10+ people to finish.

Anything that requires using more then 1 brain cell is ok in my book. Bring on the epic battles.

 

I agree completely with Stompalomp  on this matter, as a former raider, the notion that 40 mans were 'too hard' is just odd to me. Over half of the 40 mans have always been doable IF you were willing to listen. Or, I don't know, youtube some guides for your class for that run... If you can't lead, don't lead, if you aren't willing to follow the leader, don't raid. Sometimes it really is that simple, regardless of the setting, raid or dungeon, dynamic event or group quest. 


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#17
Phixxion

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I've raided 40 mans and somehow i can't understand what you mean - it was a big mess, it was just the only way to go at this time. As a warlock my raid often started like 1 hour before the actual raid (leech stones, ride to the instance, get portal ready so we can port people to start in time) to just mention one thing.

 

My guess, considering it will be a casual MMO, is 7-15 man raids in 3 ore more difficulties. When it comes to events (let's say like in rift) I'd go for 2-100 people in the openworld.

 

Nice article on this topic btw: http://manaflask.com...-difficult-past totally worth a read!



#18
Tiam

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Right now Blizzard are Experimenting with Flex raid which difficulty will scale with players.What if we had this in Titan but for every number of people we have increasing rewards?

 

Lets take for example this:

1.10 man raid - rewards from achievements Pets and titles

2.25 man raid - mounts and tabards

3.40 man raid - gear skins

 

The raids will be pure copy of Flex raid where the instance will scale with the number of people in it,but when the raid is full at those raid checks (10,25,40) people will receive vanity items.The gear grind will be the same on all difficulties.It will NOT matter will you do the raid with raid (7,17 or 37) people.The gear stats will be the same only the difficulty will be higher,more complex and with more mechanics,but you will receive vanity items only if the raid is full(10,25,40)

Blizzard's idea for Flex raid is great concept.


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#19
Ellendway

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With all new features in WoW do you actually expect something like 40 man raids?

 

Blizzard will never do this mistake again. Feel free to call me an idiot but 40 man raids were a horrible mistake and Blizzard did awesome job when they removed it. May I know how many of you ever tried 40 man? Or I will ask a different question. How many of you ever tried to lead 40 man raid? I think we will see something like a new feature in WoW - Flexible raiding - in Titan. It does make sense.



#20
Orhai

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With all new features in WoW do you actually expect something like 40 man raids?

 

Blizzard will never do this mistake again. Feel free to call me an idiot but 40 man raids were a horrible mistake and Blizzard did awesome job when they removed it. May I know how many of you ever tried 40 man? Or I will ask a different question. How many of you ever tried to lead 40 man raid? I think we will see something like a new feature in WoW - Flexible raiding - in Titan. It does make sense.

 

I have done 40, 54, 72 and everything in between also have lead all

just because some players cant handle it does not mean games should be dumbed down to the lowest common denominator