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Ideas/Concepts you want or don't want to see in Titan?


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#61
mynsc

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I can disagree with it quite easily for the simple fact that me and the many others in the raid that passed the check are not here to bang our heads against the boss to help carry others that are not prepared to enter this raid.

 

This is funny because the encounters are indeed designed to not be just mindless grinding, but to offer a bit of a challenge. Even for organized guilds even. I mean seriously, are they not?

 

And then come the PUG "kings", that consider it ridiculous to accept players that are not over-geared for that encounter. They are specifically going against the intended design and that's not even the problem. The problem is that this has become the norm.

 

So instead of most PUGs being close to the intended GS and tactics knowledge (and by this I mean the level needed to go through an instance with a high chance of success, but also with some challenge) through a mix of over-geared / under-geared and experienced / inexperienced players, something completely screwed up happens. 

 

PUGs are either incredibly over-geared and over-prepared for that certain instance, or are hopelessly under-geared and not prepared for it. 

 

In shorter words, instead of players mixing with each other more, this way also adding to the community feel etc, we almost have a social class system: nobles play only with nobles, common folk only play with each other.

 

I of course haven't seen or made any real studies on this aspect, but this is definitely the feeling I got while I played WoW.

 

The overall situation is not fully critical just because of guilds. Most "common folk" eventually manage to find a guild that is willing to help them (if they dont quit before this) and get saved. They also get absorbed by the "system" and soon enough they won't want to play with under-geared players. :p


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#62
Falcker

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This is funny because the encounters are indeed designed to not be just mindless grinding, but to offer a bit of a challenge. Even for organized guilds even. I mean seriously, are they not?

 

Sure

 

And then come the PUG "kings", that consider it ridiculous to accept players that are not over-geared for that encounter. They are specifically going against the intended design and that's not even the problem.

 

 

Uh no, you are mistaking Guild Raiding with PuG Raiding.

 

A Guild Raid can spend 4 hours learning an encounter and come away with experience that will benefit them next raid. A PuG spending 4 hours bashing a boss because 5 people have no idea what they are doing or are simply not geared enough to do enough damage to beat the boss does nothing for you, the next week you will be doing the exact same learning process with 24 new people and this repeats forever.

 

So instead of most PUGs being close to the intended GS and tactics knowledge

 

 

 

See this is the serious level of misunderstanding that shows you've never had to deal with PuG raid leading on a semi weekly level. 

 

I dont know you, I dont know your DPS, I dont know your playstyle, I dont know your raid awareness, I dont know anything about you. This is a not a guild run where i have seen you play time and time again.

 

To me you are an enigma.

 

I know nothing about how you will perform in my raid and the only thing i can check is if you A) have experience (achievement) or B) have gear, bonus points for both.

 

Asking me to pretend every player is capable is a massive massive mistake for a PuG.

 

In shorter words, instead of players mixing with each other more, this way also adding to the community feel etc, we almost have a social class system

 

 

 

 

Raiders play with Raiders.

 

You are looking at arguably the most difficult and serious aspect of the game and asking why people are being so serious about it. Stop bullshiting this into some kind of social struggle and accept the fact that PUG RAIDS are built with the idea of trying to ensure the past chance of success.

 

You want to experience a welcoming community that fosters growth and supports each other. JOIN A GUILD. Stop acting like its the PuGs burden to ensure you get what you want at the expense of their time.

 

Most "common folk" eventually manage to find a guild that is willing to help them (if they dont quit before this) and get saved.

 

 

 

 

 

Saved? You are talking about arguably one of the hardest of the hardcore aspects of the game and acting like their entire enjoyment depends on it.

 

Look, this is derailing this thread like crazy so ill leave it at this. Want to avoid these arbitrary checks? Join a group that doesnt have them or hell START YOUR OWN, but dont think for one second that you should be capable of forcing your way into someone elses group and determining what the rules are for them for deciding who gets to come.



#63
mynsc

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You kinda turned it upside down. It wasn't about "me" forcing my way into a PUG, rather about PUG leaders having ridiculous requirements and not accepting even a few players that are not over-geared or experienced, unless ofc they have no other choice.

 

I also was not saying that you should have 24 players that have no clue what they're doing, but rather I wish PUG starters would accept a more diverse range of characters / players and not make GS such a deciding factor. Talk with the player a bit, see what's his responses are like, check his build and see if he knows how to gem / enchant / reforge. I find this much more normal and positive rather than just placing a GS wall in front of everyone.

 

And I've formed and led many PUGs back when I was really active (wotlk). I was at that time probably the best geared healer on the server and this helped me boost many normal raids and it actually was one of the most rewarding activities I was doing ingame. Nothing was more satisfying than finishing an instance with a way below-average group. I was more tired than after some of our heroic wipe nights, but it was challenging and fun! You know, how games should be.


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#64
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People get different uses out of games.

 

Some don't really care about other players and are solely focused on their own progression. They want feelings of gratification and control from the game, dominating ruthlessly because they perhaps can't in the real world and want to. Some call these people 'elitists'.

 

On the other side, you get some players who appreciate the idea that all actions should be 'fun' or 'enjoyable' for the majority, not just themselves. You get the idea of a 'hand up, not a hand out' - helping other players to be better, not sacrifcing your gold or items to bad players, but helping the players go from bad to okay, okay to good and so on.

 

Lots of people claim "I'm not here to help some idiot who can't play, I'm here to have fun", but spend most of their time complaining about bad players or setting up barriers to people trying to progress to their level. I don't know about you, but complaining about bad players and exclusivising raids sounds quite the opposite of fun to me. I sometimes feel players that feel this way need to sit back and think to themselves if they really are enjoying this game, or if it's just blinding away time because it's cathartic from the lack of power in their everyday life.

 

Gamers can be either for themselves and have comfort in this solitary control, or they're for other people and they gain fulfillment when all are enjoying whatever it is the game offers.

 

Most are inbetween these two polarizations and of course there are many hybrids of these two stereotypes, but they're a general guide.

 

I'm clearly of the ilk of players that gains fun and enjoyment from everyone else around me enjoying the game, but I also appreciate solitary questing and doing soloing things - so there is perhaps a mix of both sides for me in that.

 

How does this relate to what I do/don't want to see in Titan? Well it shapes my perception of good concepts and bad concepts.

 

Don't want to see:

 

- Gear being a huge contributor to how 'good' a player is. Of course, I agree that it's essential in building progression, but I also think it is very limiting and that players should be able to be good because of other factors currently not really taken into account such as their movement skills, inventive ideas with physics or any other factors. Of course, the problem with this is that it's quite utopian, we've heard rumours that Titan will use Tab Targeting and involving other factors will be extremely hard for the dev team to balance. However, at the same time I think that allowing in physics and movement into the ability of a player to take down a mob would really open up endless realms of opportunity of innovation by both players and devs. One could argue that WoW already does this, such as in raids moving out of LoS or going in AoE buffs and staying away from debuffs but I think it's a very quantified, crude and limiting degree of movement.

 

- Dog eat dog communities. As Velocity said, WoW isn't actually built for friendly players that want to help others and they have to implement devices to quell the veracity of brutal, heartless communities - if I wanted a brutal and heartless community I'd go play CoD or something, not an MMO with rich stories and an array of community focused devices. Although I agree that the whole point of MMOs is that they're diverse and cater to a huge audience, so you're always going to have elitists and you're always going to have 'socialists'.

 

Do want to see:

 

More freedom. In all areas of the game, from travelling to being able to climb buildings or break down doors, hide from other players in objects etc. Not only this, I'd love to see more freedom in skills and once again bring in the idea of physics and movement and how this might affect abilities. It would also be wonderful for players to be able to tune abilities directly in a way different to talent trees, e.g. If you wanted to be an illusionist mage, you could find objects in the world and tune your specific skills. I suppose something like Path of the Titans but less quanitifed and more plastic would be good. The problem with this approach is that it does make work harder for devs, it makes the whole game less controllable and predictable but I'd argue that perhaps this is a good thing?

 

I could think of more, but that'll do me for now.


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#65
Templar

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People get different uses out of games.
 
Some don't really care about other players and are solely focused on their own progression. They want feelings of gratification and control from the game, dominating ruthlessly because they perhaps can't in the real world and want to. Some call these people 'elitists'.
 
On the other side, you get some players who appreciate the idea that all actions should be 'fun' or 'enjoyable' for the majority, not just themselves. You get the idea of a 'hand up, not a hand out' - helping other players to be better, not sacrifcing your gold or items to bad players, but helping the players go from bad to okay, okay to good and so on.
 
Lots of people claim "I'm not here to help some idiot who can't play, I'm here to have fun", but spend most of their time complaining about bad players or setting up barriers to people trying to progress to their level. I don't know about you, but complaining about bad players and exclusivising raids sounds quite the opposite of fun to me. I sometimes feel players that feel this way need to sit back and think to themselves if they really are enjoying this game, or if it's just blinding away time because it's cathartic from the lack of power in their everyday life.
 
Gamers can be either for themselves and have comfort in this solitary control, or they're for other people and they gain fulfillment when all are enjoying whatever it is the game offers.
 
Most are inbetween these two polarizations and of course there are many hybrids of these two stereotypes, but they're a general guide.
 
I'm clearly of the ilk of players that gains fun and enjoyment from everyone else around me enjoying the game, but I also appreciate solitary questing and doing soloing things - so there is perhaps a mix of both sides for me in that.
 
How does this relate to what I do/don't want to see in Titan? Well it shapes my perception of good concepts and bad concepts.
 
Don't want to see:
 
- Gear being a huge contributor to how 'good' a player is. Of course, I agree that it's essential in building progression, but I also think it is very limiting and that players should be able to be good because of other factors currently not really taken into account such as their movement skills, inventive ideas with physics or any other factors. Of course, the problem with this is that it's quite utopian, we've heard rumours that Titan will use Tab Targeting and involving other factors will be extremely hard for the dev team to balance. However, at the same time I think that allowing in physics and movement into the ability of a player to take down a mob would really open up endless realms of opportunity of innovation by both players and devs. One could argue that WoW already does this, such as in raids moving out of LoS or going in AoE buffs and staying away from debuffs but I think it's a very quantified, crude and limiting degree of movement.
 
- Dog eat dog communities. As Velocity said, WoW isn't actually built for friendly players that want to help others and they have to implement devices to quell the veracity of brutal, heartless communities - if I wanted a brutal and heartless community I'd go play CoD or something, not an MMO with rich stories and an array of community focused devices. Although I agree that the whole point of MMOs is that they're diverse and cater to a huge audience, so you're always going to have elitists and you're always going to have 'socialists'.
 
Do want to see:
 
More freedom. In all areas of the game, from travelling to being able to climb buildings or break down doors, hide from other players in objects etc. Not only this, I'd love to see more freedom in skills and once again bring in the idea of physics and movement and how this might affect abilities. It would also be wonderful for players to be able to tune abilities directly in a way different to talent trees, e.g. If you wanted to be an illusionist mage, you could find objects in the world and tune your specific skills. I suppose something like Path of the Titans but less quanitifed and more plastic would be good. The problem with this approach is that it does make work harder for devs, it makes the whole game less controllable and predictable but I'd argue that perhaps this is a good thing?
 
I could think of more, but that'll do me for now.


Awesome post as usual Euph! Have a like!

I totally agree about gear not being as important as it currently is, I think progression in MMOs should be based based on skill and not gear (as much).

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#66
Tiam

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I would like to be able to cast spells and abilities while - walking,running,jumping,falling,swimming.I never liked the stagnant combat of every MMO that came after EQ.I want to see some new combat.Maybe if i put in one Tera's and GW2's combat systems i will receive my perfect style.

The problem with Tera is that you are still being rooted at one place when using a spell.And in GW2 i hate that i can't hit while jumping or falling.

 

I also want when i pick up loot to be able to key bind a button.So i can colect loot not only with my mouse but with the keyboard too.

I also want to be able to target things/monsters not only with my mouse but with a key bind.

I would love when someone pulls a mob it's loot to be not bound to that person specifically.But everyone that participated in the kill even not being in a group with the puller to receive a loot.


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#67
PinkPony

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what if you can actually buy players as a guild master? like in a soccer game. players are rated, have different strenghts and weakness, and of course differenz prices. if a player accepts your buyout, he cannot leave your guild for let's say 5 months, because of the agreement. therefore he gets money and both are happy.

 

or to ask another question: what if you could buy NPCs for you/your guild?



#68
Nietzsche

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I thought of a concept regarding the way they might implement Greek/Roman/Norse mythology and the classes.

 

When one creates a character you choose a region of origin, a race (if races are implemented) and a deity.

Each choice gives you a certain set of abilities/statboosters.

 

As an example:

Origin:

 

Norse: 1% extra hit with blunt weapons and 1% extra money loot ('cause, you know, plundering)

Mongolian: 1% extra hit with bows and 5% faster mounts

Roman: Extra block chance with shield and partymembers get a moralbooster

etc.

 

Race:

 

Minotaur: Perm mount and a number of stomp abilities.

Succubus: Discount at vendors and charm-like abilities.

etc.

 

Deity:

 

Zeus/Thor: lighting attacks

Poseidon/Neptune: water attacks

Mars: Attacks that emphasize weaponry

Hades: Raising undead and stuff

etc.

 

Classes are not fixed from the start, so you can play any style you want. This would also mean no fixed factions because the gods and regions always changed their allegiances.

 

I have some more ideas, but I'm doing this at work and I really need to get some things done.



#69
Valdall

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This is somthing that i have had in my mind for a while now (its not specificly intended for Titan but i would find it intersting).

 

the guildroster is capped, guilds earn somthing that represents the guilds strength like honor, fame or reputation.

 

2-5 guilds can join to form a horde, but the individual guilds still exist and the guild leader of the guild with the most fame or rep (or whatever) gets to be the horde leader. if at one moment another guild within the horde overtakes the hordeleaders guild in strength their guild leader will be the new horde leader. (this should prevent that when the leader is from another guild, and that guild just dies out, that the horde would not fall without an active leader)

 

2-5 hordes form a legion: same explenation as above exept the horde leader with the strongest horde gets to be the Legion Legate (taken from the Romans)

 

all the while your guild still has its own personality.

 

dont know if something like this can be implemented but i would find such a militaristic and alliancebased social model interesting, the game could be without predetermined factions, but since you are creating your own fractured groups, you would be creating your own faction. there would as manny factions as there where alliances (if there was a rescourse of some kind that would benefit groups that held it, that would make things more intersting).

 

well that's my 2 cent on this matter

 

srry for the awfull spelling and syntax.

I also like the idea of the Skillwheel from the The Secret World. its not perfect but verry intersting. and i'm even more interestd what Blizzard would do with the idea, how they would tweak and adjust it.



#70
Swinegrinder

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This topic/post can really drag on, I'll bullet some points.

 

Here is basically why WoW failed after a couple expansions. And we can basically say what we DON'T want in Titan from these points:

  • Quick Travel/Teleport/Hearthstone Excessively i.e. Insta-travel Across World Every 5 Minutes, or Fly Everywhere Every 100 Steps
  • Spoon-fed Quests/Challenges/Raids/GEAR i.e. Purplez Every End Level Quest or Weak Boss (Epics Should Be Epic...)
  • "Flavor of the Month Classes" The Balance Issue Comes from the Inability to Separate PvP Stats from PvE Stats. i.e. The Warrior Will Do the Most Damage In PvE Charts with Only 2 Buttons, He Gets Nerfed and Then Fails In PvP.
  • Over-simplification of Math and Tooltips/Stats (A Lot of People Enjoy Number-crunching and Theorycrafting Such As Myself)
  • RACIAL "BENEFITS" CREATES ISOLATION OF RACE POPULATION!!!!!!! i.e. If You Didn't Pick A Human/Orc/Undead for PvP In WoW, You Were at a Massive Disadvantage. Statistically.

Sorry for the Pessimism.


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#71
PinkPony

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This topic/post can really drag on, I'll bullet some points.

 

Here is basically why WoW failed after a couple expansions. And we can basically say what we DON'T want in Titan from these points:

  • Quick Travel/Teleport/Hearthstone Excessively i.e. Insta-travel Across World Every 5 Minutes, or Fly Everywhere Every 100 Steps

Agree.

  • Spoon-fed Quests/Challenges/Raids/GEAR i.e. Purplez Every End Level Quest or Weak Boss (Epics Should Be Epic...)

Epics don't feel epic anymore, right. Because everything is purple. Epics should be very rare and much harder to get.

  • "Flavor of the Month Classes" The Balance Issue Comes from the Inability to Separate PvP Stats from PvE Stats. i.e. The Warrior Will Do the Most Damage In PvE Charts with Only 2 Buttons, He Gets Nerfed and Then Fails In PvP.

I don't know if this is much of a problem in WoW, but it's kinda true. Either you have a game with very different classes and different strenghts, or you homogenize everything which seems a lil bit too bold.

  • Over-simplification of Math and Tooltips/Stats (A Lot of People Enjoy Number-crunching and Theorycrafting Such As Myself)

Disagree here. I think WoW still has too much different stats and attributes. And too much buttons (which is another topic).

  • RACIAL "BENEFITS" CREATES ISOLATION OF RACE POPULATION!!!!!!! i.e. If You Didn't Pick A Human/Orc/Undead for PvP In WoW, You Were at a Massive Disadvantage. Statistically.

"Massive disadvantage" isn't true. But it's kinda. I play N811 Hunter, if i played Worgen, I'd basically get 1% more crit and do more damage. I don't like this at all. But I am okay with it, because it is no big deal. To be happy with your class is much more important than doing the most dps of all. And I'm still not a bad one. So, I don't know if I should agree with you here or not.

 

 



#72
Tiam

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Swinegrider,I agree with you almost on 100%.Everything you said is top notch.

I really hope Titan will have split in PvP and PvE like talents,spells,builds.When something is nerfed in one type of the game it shouldn't affect the other part.

 

Also gear grind.I don't want it.WoW is releasing new gear too often.I don't mind to have new gear as long it's very slow released and not affecting the game too much.For instance the increase of the stats to be 10% maximum.

Also i don't want to see the numbers to jump like in WoW where you hit for 80k dmg.THat is just silly and it went out of hand.Now Blizzard have to make an item squish.I really hope Titan to avoid this problem.

 

Other thing that i want is a up/down scaling system,because right now in WoW old zones have become irrelevant.Why should a high level player go back?He can't play with a leveling friends,because he is one shooting everything.He is NOT rewarded good enough for his time spent.The level(GW2) or gear(WoW) scaling systems are good because they will not make the world irrelevant.


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#73
Tiam

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So here are a few things that i like in different MMOs and would like to be added in Titan:

 

1.Virtual Realm from WoW.With this tech the Open world won't feel empty.The zones will be CRZ and people will see other people very often.

2.Overflow from GW2.I like this because unlike WoW in GW2 there aren't any queue times.People don't wait in order to enter their home server.If titan has    overflow build in people won't have to wait to play when ever they want to do it.

3.Up/down scaling look my previous post.

   The scaling system combined combined with Virtual Realms will make the Open world even more populated than the normal.

4.Flex Raid from WoW but with specific raid checks at 10 man,25 man and 40 man.Each Check will have rewards.You can always go with 7,16,32 or what ever number of people you want,but you wont be rewarded.For vanity item rewards you will need a specific number of people(10,25,40)

   If you go with 10 people you will receive - pet and tittle

   if you go with 25 people you will receive - Mount and tabard

   if you go with 40 people you will receive - Pet,title,mount,tabard and gear,weapon skin


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#74
Tiam

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I would also like to see more Mini games added.And some kind of water puzzles where you have to swim through them and jumping puzzles.I really like the jumping aspects in some games like Counter-strike for instance.What was the mode called...Death run?


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