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Will Titan Keep The Holy Trinity System ?


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Poll: Will Titan Keep The Holy Trinity System ?

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Will Titan keep the holy trinity system ?

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#1
mynsc

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We dont even know if there will be classes, but it doesnt hurt to talk. :D

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#2
Nevsky

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I happen to like (love, even) the trinity system. That said, I'm more than willing to try something new. I'm good with whatever.

#3
tpower

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To be completely honest I'm hoping that they are going to keep the 'trinity system', though something else that could be interesting would be a system where you don't press a button to be a class but instead you start out as nothing, and when you level up you can choose skills from any of the classes, which would make room for endless possibilities of hybrid classes.

then based on your most used class trees, you will be given a suiting class name, for example (using the wow classes) if you were using mostly warrior and paladin talents, you would become a 'templar' class.

#4
Tanksenior

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Someone care to explain what "The Holy Trinity System" is? (yes I know, I could google it, but I'm probably not the only one who's confused ^^)

#5
mynsc

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Exalted.GM.Inferno

Someone care to explain what "The Holy Trinity System" is? (yes I know, I could google it, but I'm probably not the only one who's confused ^^)


Tank - damage dealer - healer. Almost every MMORPG out there requires this composition for its dungeons / raids.

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#6
Tanksenior

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Right :p that was pretty obvious... derp

#7
Symptom

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MMO's are starting to dual-role as a standard. In Firefall you can switch roles on the fly but that game is a TF2/Global Agenda combat style and not a typical "Tank gets the aggro" setup so it would be really interesting to see Titan follow that path instead.

#8
Sjoblom

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While I did vote fine either way I think tankless PvE would be the most interesting. I wish for aiming and movement when it comes to DPS in this game and tanking doesn't really fit all that well into that, at least not in the traditional sense.

#9
Draykorinee

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I will obviously wait to see what Titan is but I cant see how an mmo game can deal without it. Any game out at the moment that has an alternative?

#10
mynsc

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While not out yet, Guild Wars 2 seems to have found a pretty good solution. At least about the healer part... every class has its own healing skill and they're all pretty even in power. Not exactly sure how tanking will go, but I've also seen a wide range of defence skills available to all classes.

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#11
Manfred

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No set archtypes. Fully customizeable characters that start out base and evolve in any direction you choose by learning of skills.

#12
MrGuy

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No set archtypes. Fully customizeable characters that start out base and evolve in any direction you choose by learning of skills.


Full agree on that one.

#13
Dorque

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I really, really hope not.

Love it or hate it, the Holy Trinity is one of the cancers that kills MMOs.

#14
Gravitic

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I agree with the idea of not starting out with these set archetypes, an evolving system that is implemented well would be always welcome but still personally, I have always enjoyed the feeling of having your own fundamental/'special' role to play when being a part of this Holy Trinity system within a group, be I a tank, DPS or healer, I have my specialism role and that feels more empowering in some ways.

#15
Dorque

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I agree with the idea of not starting out with these set archetypes, an evolving system that is implemented well would be always welcome but still personally, I have always enjoyed the feeling of having your own fundamental/'special' role to play when being a part of this Holy Trinity system within a group, be I a tank, DPS or healer, I have my specialism role and that feels more empowering in some ways.


Thing is, it's a bit of a double-edged sword. I hope that the devs can find a way to give characters special roles without creating "necessary" classes.

I reason thusly:

In a Holy Trinity system, every instance/encounter/whatever tends to require the same balance: one tank, one healer, 2-3 DPS. If we go with WoW, 3 DPS. The problems with this are the following:

1. Players don't generally keep to the 1/1/3 ratio, worldwide. Something like 90-95% of WoW players play DPS. To most players it's more fun and less challenging.

2. Even if there's slide room added to the game, such as dual-spec, most of the people who have a dual spec for tanking or healing are not very good at it, due to skill, gear or both, and while DPS can safely be so-so at their job for most encounters, tanks and healers cannot.

What we tend to end up with is a system in which 1-2% of the world's population is responsible for the successful running of almost all content.

I don't mind the basic concept of the Holy Trinity, but players don't balance it out. By comparison... well, as much as I generally despise the system, let's look at D&D 4.0.

Each character is pretty much responsible for their own healing. They each come with a set number of "healing surges" per day. They can trigger one per encounter, plus more if they have the abilities. Healers CAN trigger the healing surges of other players, as can certain other class abilities, but combat is much more fluid; one player isn't sitting back healing and nothing else.

Likewise, while there are definitely more and less resilient characters and you want one of the more resilient characters soaking the damage, each character is relatively close in health and has their own way of avoiding death. Warlords shuffle allies and enemies around the battlefield. Other classes, if they don't tank, have crowd control abilities, escape abilities... all of which lends itself heavily to taking their survival out of the hands of the tank/healer combo and putting it back in their own.

I'm pretty sure that a system like this can be realized in an MMO - I've seen examples of systems like it - and my personal feeling is it's a lot better because it prevents all of that "looking for tank/healer" trouble.

#16
mynsc

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Very well written post!

The D&D system you're describing is almost to the letter implemented by Guild Wars 2. And at first look at least, it really does seem to be a lot more fun and balanced than the good old fashion Trinity.

Even if I think there will still be party composition rules (although they'll function more like guidelines rather than actual restrictions), the main advantage I see with it is that players will be a lot more free inside a party. A player's survival will depend 90% on himself and you can no longer blame the healer or a tank's weak aggro. This will also make the fights more chaotic and even completely different from run to run, depending on the style of the players and the party composition.

I definitely enjoy more, in theory at least, the D&D model and I can't wait to try it out in GW2.

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#17
Silverthorn

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Just avoid having cookie-cutter builds. It ain't no fun when you "have to" search the internet for the mathematically best build. I hate math.

#18
Revelasian

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i hope theres some form of twinking involved... where you find the best gear possible for a set level...

#19
BanzaiJoe

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As of 19 votes, 0 votes for Hope so!

#20
Reo

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In my opinion the way to avoid the requirements of the Holy trinity is to do two things:
1. Add survivabilty mechanics to all classes. Be it self healing via life stealing or avoidence mechnichs like kiting.
2. Remove all damage from PvE content that is unavoidable. In most PvE encounters MMO's there are constantly outgoing damage that is unavoidable. Like every 30 seconds the boss explodes dealing x amount of damage to all players in raid, or similar.

There are plenty of games outhere that does not require the holy trinity. The problem just is that most MMO content is designed to cater the Holy trinity.